V.A.L.U.E. Season 4 - PREPLANNING

General/Looking For Group
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53

I don’t think we need to make things more complicated here. As long as we limit the amount of magic items (although the current limit in T2 and T3 is too low in my opinion), stalling a character at the top end of a tier, especially T2 and above, should not be problematic.

I don’t think there ever were issues of characters having too much gold or downtime in T2 and above - at best, accumulated downtime gave the option to directly jump a character from T2 to the tail end of T3 or even straight to T4.

Also, I don’t want to have to consider “do I not level my character, because the rewards were trash” as a player or “do I give out minimal rewards to allow players to stay at level 10 without losing out on a good magic item” as a DM.

Best keep rules as they are in terms of leveling. DMing high tiers is a challenge of its own, and I understand that not everyone enjoys it. OneDnD is not gonna solve high tier issues either. If anything, it will make high tiers even more difficult to DM for.
By keeping rules as they are we don’t pressure DMs into running high tier games more often and avoid all the other issues.

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Absolutely! We should definitely do a vote.

I was basing the low amount of high tier games simply off of my own situation with the matter. I’ve been sitting on 2-4 T3/T4 adventures which I never really got the opportunty to run because I was lacking players (or there were a lot of T2 players how needed a DM). Or at least that was how I percieved it.

Maybe the characters were there but there was simply not that much interest in high tier games (or the type of games I was pitching) from the player side. :person_shrugging:
So if we do make a poll for the DMs, it might also be worth it to poll the players to gauge their interest in higher tier games?

I will admit that DMing for higher tiers is a lot more exhausting than for lower ones, so it isn’t something I would do every week… just once in a while. If other DMs share this sentiment, that would already increase the amount of high tier games being run.

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Imo characters aren’t the problem, they’d level up accordingly in short order. The adventures getting bigger than the AL system is designed to handle is an issue.

On the one side: I’d have a high double to triple digit collection of adventures in that ballpark.

On the other one: They are conceived & designed around high level game play. I.e. Often more of a sandbox than a chamber play. To long for a single session and under the assumption of a certain continuity in party composition &state, presumed background knowledge from previous sessions and planning ahead.

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I would very much prefer if we kept leveling up optional. I like lower tiers of play especially tier 2. So most of the time I don’t want to level a character beyond level 10. And as stated by other ppl there is no problem with characters becoming op, if they don’t level up, due to the magic item limits for each tier.

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To add to that, see games like @xaosseed 's Brancalonia series- that one is way, way longer than just 4 games (after which characters would become T2 with forced leveling).

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Now for something completely different. I thought about a code of conduct and I expanded the classic “Don’t be an idiot” a bit. This is still work in Progress but I would like to have your input.

COOPERATE WITH EVERYONE ELSE

Try and pay attention to others and allow them their chance in the spotlight too. Make sure that the table environment is good and welcoming.

RESPECT OTHERS

This is a cooperative game and you are all trying to have fun together. Respect your neighbour whether it is GM/DM or player. Also players might be different in many aspects. Respect their gender/sexuality/ect.

RESPECT THE GAME

The DM/GM and Players have put much effort into this game. Please respect their effort and the rules of the game. That means that you don’t intentionally try to derail the game, attack other characters (without consent), destroy plot important items, ect.

RESPECT BOUDARIES

If you have a personal Boundary, such as a trigger (something that will upset you, or make you very uncomfortable) please tell the DM beforehand. If it happens tell the DM, they will probably stop the scene and make a break.

If you have a character with difficult and problematic aspects such as Body Horror, Abuse (both physical and mental), Racist, Cannibalism, ect. Tell the entire group before and accept that this might not be accepted on the table.

THE DM/GM IS NOT YOUR ENEMY

The DM/GM is playing the antagonist but is not your antagonist. Allow them to have fun too.

FOR DM/GMs:

YOU ARE EMPOWERED

If you or your players are uncomfortable with something you are allowed to not have it on your table. Politely request the offending party to stop their behaviour. If they don’t comply/ are aggressive/ ignore you or else you are empowered to ask them to leave. If you are unsure ask an experienced DM/GM.

Just because another DM/GM did allow something doesn’t mean that you have to do the same. For example: Allow Homebrew, certain interactions, certain character quirks.

You can run the adventure you want but if it has problematic and very dark themes, give a short content warning to make sure that the players know that things might get dark.

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This is great - kudos for the focus on what we seek to encourage.

Suggestions - all additive, I think what is there is good.

CONTEXT FOR NEW-COMERS

  • VALUE games have certain aspects to be aware of: these are open-table games often with people who do not know each other, often with people new to D&D, and we are typically looking to get a whole game run in a single night.

Addition under COOPERATE WITH EVERYONE ELSE

  • you will have a better time if you bring a character who is ready to go on adventures with others

Addition to RESPECT OTHERS

  • We will not tolerate theft or aggressive behaviour. Theft and aggressive behaviour are reasons for immediate exclusion from the game. Aggressive behaviour includes threats of or actual physical aggression, using racial, gender, or cultural slurs and otherwise harassing others.

That last is to have stated the obvious. It does not come up much but if it did, a new DM who might be uncertain has it in black and white to back them up.

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I’ve written a few code of conducts for non profit organisations, specifically international ones. If you want to brainstorm on this topic I am happy to share :slight_smile: but outside of this tread perhaps.

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61

Sounds great :grinning:

D&D Beyond just published an article about how they are going to adapt the new rules:

https://www.dndbeyond.com/changelog#UpdatingtheDDBeyondToolsetforthe2024CoreRulebooks

Summary:

  • 2014 versions of classes, subclasses, races and statblocks also found in the 2024 PHB are treated as legacy content, just like how they did it with races and monsters when Monsters of the Multiverse released
  • spells, magic items and mundane gear will be updated to the new rules without keeping the old versions
  • Characters created using 2024 classes can also use not-updated old content, e.g. a cleric created using the 2024 cleric class can still pick the Twilight (Tasha), Forge (Xanathar) or Knowledge (2014 PHB) domain.
  • When you pick an old background, you can choose an origin feat and stat increases as you want - so you essentially create a custom background in this way.
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https://www.dndbeyond.com/posts/1806-2024-d-d-beyond-ruleset-changelog-update

Seems like WOTC is backpedaling on the D&D Beyond update, they are not removing 2014 magic items and spells from character sheets.

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Hello everybody! Mind if I chip into this discussion?

I have DMed for more than 2 years now and have run at least 14 adventures at V.A.L.U.E. tables. Thus my experience here tells me to say the following:

I notice a lot of “what rules shall we put in place or how should we word them?” items floating around. I wonder what the point is, other than of course be comprehensive to a first-time reader.

The heart of this game, of any TTRPG in fact, is the immersion & roleplay aspects. It’s right there in the title: “ttRPg”. The dice and other tools we commonly use to adjudicate are only there to help the game along. In a tablesetting full of trust dice & other tools aren’t even needed. You could view them as unnecessary niceties. The game is actually about the humans who want to play a communal game together and hallucinate in the best ways possible. This is why success or failure don’t mean jack-squat and the journey through whatever story or happenstances is the actual gameplay.

You see this best at T1 tables. Characters are by design meek and frightful, and logically so! People tend to not go overconfident or gung-ho because it would be inadvisable to do so. And guess what? Most T1 tables I have ever been a part of experience the most magic moments of D&D. T2 also has this, but to a lesser degree - because people there are starting to get distracted by the FEATURES and ABILITIES and whatnot…and they start to miss the point of the game. I imagine this worsens massively when nearing endgame.

Advice? -->> Forget that you are playing as a “class” for a while and simply be the imaginary person you claim to be. It is you after all. Try to be the best you in the current context. And then you will always win, no matter what happens in the game session c: because you did your job correctly and dedicated your all in service to the game. Nobody can be mad at you for doing that much of a good job.

So loud inhalation what about the pedantics? → Ruleswise I say, the current A.L. D&D experience is a system wherein players can 1) make a character 2) play that character 3) choose to continue with said character or set that one aside in favor of another. 4) repeat.

This is a good closed system. Doesn’t need to change. Which is where the “forced leveling” would interfere.

I get it. It would introduce a degree of certainty, because it does away with choice. “You picked this path, now walk it” is fun and can surely shake it up for veterans. But you can already do this now^^. Simply act like you “have” to level up each time and make it harder on yourself. It is your personal journey through the Tiers of Play. Make it what you will, this is what it’s there for. No need to add this to the rules in my opinion, because functionally it’s already present.

And by the way: Thank the Lord, that D&D is already one thing and one thing only. If multiple changes are made within the game then it ceases to be what it is.

That’s trouble. Also, that’s what other game systems are there for. What is being played at VALUE? → Dungeons and Dragons.

Easy. Good, short and succinct answer. Quick to explain.

If we all start going: “well, first off it’s not EXACTLY D&D as you might have heard of it or seen on the internet…it’s actually a collection of homemade fixes, that aim to…”

Nope.

Terrible design. Because it obfuscates and makes it harder to understand for everybody involved.

More complex is not better. Simple is best more often than not.

So keep banning the annoying stuff like Silvery Barbs and leave it at that.

Hey, can we make it a requirement to “Employ common sense”? That would be neat!

Anyway, that’s my take on the overall forum post. Sorry if I missed arguments. You mostly dealt with that stuff already before I posted.

Cheers

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I’ve been thinking about these same questions lately.

To quote the guy who kind of invented the whole thing, “It is important to remember that ‘role-playing’ is a modifier of the noun ‘game.’ We are dealing with a game which is based on role playing, but it is first and foremost a game.”

RPGs aren’t simply creating fiction together. Success and failure are important parts of what makes them actual games.

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totally. I did say that “success and failure do not mean jack-squat” with such confidence that I neglected to elaborate xD. As long as the game is played well, fun is had. What actually ends up happening in the events within the game session doesn’t matter as much as long as the roleplay, immersion and core of the game is intact and well-fed by the participants.

That’s what I meant.

Games have success and failure states and removing that would break the game. Then it would no longer be a game, but a windowshopping of options that do not incur any consequences. …but as a consequence-free player you also do not gain anything from having played. Nothing risked = nothing gained. That’s the downside, the entire reason for playing evaporates.

Choices must have consequences for it to be a game. What I described was essentially that, let’s be honest, the DM could just as well state what the outcomes are and still perform the same duties as the mathrocks.

It’s still a better solution to have random chance dictate how the fictitious events shake out because then nobody takes the fall for disagreements. The dice can always be as guilty as they need to be, it doesn’t do anything to them^^

But yeah, roleplay is the heart of this genre of game, I should maybe put it. Thank you, @H Choice and consequence is what makes it a game. Roleplaying to the best of your abilities and even finding out that you improved in that is what makes it all work. The universal glue that lets people get into the game and stick with it.

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just found out that pistols and muskets are in the new PHB24
(don’t look broken on a first glance; maybe could be if we allow the old Firearm feat? :man_shrugging: )

  • Pistol: 1d10 piercing - Ammunition (30/90 ft.), Loading; WM: Vex
  • Musket: 1d12 piercing - Ammunition (40/120 ft.), Loading, Two‑Handed; WM: Slow

both are martial weapons

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i just realized that the 2024 dual wielder feat only allows the bonus action attack to be made with a non light weapon, the main attack still has to be done with a weapon that has the light property … pretty stupid imho :smiley:

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Yeah, unless they change/errata dual wielding, we need to houserule or at least clarify how it works - especially when it comes to the interactions with the Nick mastery and Dual Wielder feat.

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@Arthilas according to GenCon the idea (RAI if you will) of the feat is, that the Dual Wielder feat allows you an extra off-hand attack as a Bonus Action, even though you made already one, thanks to the Nick Weapon Mastery

and the melee Nick weapons (Dagger, Light Hammer, Sickle, Scimitar) are all light

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then they really fucked up the dual wielder feat description :smiley: and still dual wielding non-light one handed weapons was what the feat used to be about and that is gone, which kind of sucks

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yes :100: the wording (in that case) is a mess :+1:

(also the fact, that the '14 feat with the same name was about something else, adds to the confusion)