I do not wish to pay wall Fridays or Saturdays, I think the best way to do things would be voluntary donations, but as Neil has said before: Donations rarely cover costs.
If the Verein votes for everything to stay the same, then it should. I like how things are right now as is, but I also think we could do more, if we were organized, unionized, one might say xD
People are paying dues at WoWkeeper, which shows people will pay dues, I’d just rather those dues go directly to improving RPGVienna (and cover Neil’s costs of the website) then disappear into the aether in another Verein.
Ok, my apologies @Darthbinks I did a judgement on my part and that was not cool. I felt defensive about the idea and got carried away. Indeed, I have no idea about your actual thoughs and opinions as we never had a chance to have a proper discussion.
At this point I want to clarify some points which may not have gotten across in the way I had meant:
1. Verein
Verein-idea is very high-level at this point. It could be for whole RPG-Vienna, it could be for outreach events only or it could be for something else entirely. Each of us have our own vision and there is no set plan yet.
We first need:
a. find out if our ideas align (do we want to work together on a project)? ← We are here
b. establish working group
c. do benefit/risk analysis
d. Set a plan of action
…
2. Meeting on July 22.
The meeting is not a meeting to decide whether RPG-Vienna will turn into Verein.
The meeting (hopefully one of many) is to share ideas about what TTRPG community in Vienna could be, what we can do better, what excites us enough to spend our own time and resources for years to come. And most importanly it is a meeting to find people who share your vision.
Results of this meeting could be a formation of one or multiple groups which would then attempt to bring their vision to life.
Last but not least
If people want to talk specifics about requirements and plans for some type of Verein I would propose to make a separate theread. This way we can keep this channel for other ideas from the community.
Hope that clears some bad air that have arisen here and let us continue productive discussion.
Oops sorry I should have replied here way before now! The guys reached out over discord and email some time back while this was all being discussed and I was even linked this post and I read it and nodded in agreement. I just missed out the actual “replying” part
I’ll be there on the 22nd
(I’ll go back to being elusive now)
Any and all discussion about this should be welcome, even if it may come off as a bit negative. Negative opinions on something go towards bolstering and hardening your own positive opinion so it’s all a good thing.
I think the absolute main goal is the question of why we need a Verein. I think it came about originally because locations to play were becoming a bit difficult. So the idea was RPGV would have its own space to use whenever but with that comes the question of rent and who would become liable etc.
Another reason is that it would be great to a have an “official” community. I really like the idea, don’t get me wrong. but it’s a lot of work if the end result is “because it’s cool and because we can”
Another reason it came up is because of past/future events. Someone floated the idea of donations for the organizers and then things got serious! (as is always the case as soon as money is involved ) and yeah people should be paid for their time so there should be a way to make that happen. Goodwill and appreciation is all well and good but it doesn’t pay for your rulebooks (or 40k minis in my case!)
just a bit of input since you brought these things up:
paying organizers as part of a Verein-activity does not work
→ what would work is paying for expenses
e.g. printing flyers/posters, buying community minis/battlemaps, forum costs, paying rent/fees
on a second positive note this has some “althoughs/buts”
… I will go over the details in person on the 22nd
and for the noble goal of getting RPGV’s own Verein-space: as a rough estimate: we would need x10 the number of active (thus paying) members for that to comfy pull that off, and that estimate already includes the gamers playing in the gazebo
I wholeheartedly agree that in theory that would be awesome though
that’s not me saying these things should not be tried … just me putting it in a realistic perspective
It would be great to work out the numbers like that - to understand if we want to do X, what does that mean - how many people would we need to have regularly coming, etc.
It would be great to both get ideas from everyone of what they want the future to look like and then to understand what needs to happen for us to get there.
One thing we might want to put some effort into is growing our own DM’s - making it easy for people joining to get started and building a deeper bench so the same few “forever DMs” are not carrying the whole thing on their shoulders.
I don’t have a genius solution, but I think it would be a no-regret move to put some effort into it.
Firstly, as a tabletop club, we have plenty of scenery and terrrain mats at your disposal during your games. Please just return it to the places you took it before.
We also offer lockable storage solutions (eg books, miniatues etc) for a little fee.
I made a separate thread about Vereins - feel free to post there anything related to the Vereinisation of the community (gov. resources, pluses and minuses, ideas etc).
I will keep my OP updated to sink all the useful links there. This might come useful for later discussions.
Vereine are work. Way too much work to take on simply because having a Verein sounds neat. Just looking at this …
… that’s an awful lot of time spent not playing games!
So far, reasons put forth for a Verein have been paying for this site and finding a place to play. I wholeheartedly support repaying Neil for his expenses (thanks, amigo!), but that doesn’t require a Verein. Just pass the hat at all games in a given week. Or make an event of it. Play Action Castle on the anniversary, ask everyone who can to throw five bucks or whatever Neil’s way, raise a glass and turn it into a party. Way more fun than simply paying dues, and no bureaucratic structure required.
As for a place to play, yes, there are spaces here that only rent to Vereine. But that seems like a bridge to be crossed if a space like that turns out to be the best option for those who want it. There are plenty of places that don’t require having a Verein. A gaming group I know found a very nice place for free, all without a Verein.
No worries, you just let us know if there’s anything we can do for you Sebastian. You join when its appropriate. Moreover it seems that discussion will be going for a while and imho you have enough time to jump on board (if there would be anything to jump on board at all :D)
Writing up an idea from in person chats: “Demystifying DM’ing” - a session where those who are hesitant to DM get to see behind the curtain as a session is prepped and then run.
Format would be -
Two tables of DM + 3-4 players who would like to start DM’ing
Each DM takes an hour, starts from a blank sheet of paper and talks through how they set out a session, tricks of the trade, judging balance, etc.
DM’s swap tables and run the adventure for the other table - so each table plays an adventure they know was cooked up in the past hour ~ target 2.5-3hrs game time
End of session, take 30 mins to talk through where things went sideways, how the DM’s adapted on the fly, kept things moving, etc.
Goal is to demonstrate how fun games do not require vast amounts of work and to encourage people to give it a shot.
(Could be scaled up with more DM’s/tables if lots of folk are interested)
Could be followed up with “I want to run my first game” support where first time DM’s can request a couple of experienced players to be guinea-pigs so they can give it a try in comfort.
Except we’re already asking people to pay dues at WOW/Keepers…
Except it’s been (according to Neil) years since enough donations came in to cover website costs…
Even though I am an inactive member of RPG Vienna, I’ll drop by to see what it’s about, how and why the needs of the RPG Vienna community have changed, what solutions have and have not worked and what steps are required to keep the loving community flourishing. I can also share my experiences with other Vereins. (also I’ll bring Coup).
) and yeah people should be paid for their time so there should be a way to make that happen. Goodwill and appreciation is all well and good but it doesn’t pay for your rulebooks (or 40k minis in my case!)
has some “althoughs/buts”
