Cookie jar is traditional? 
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And who is liable for said cookie jar? I run a Space Sim guild, with some 2k revenue a year xD We’ve been screwed over once, out of about 500$, by a trusted member, because we were all “Naw, we’re all friends and have gamed together for years. We trust each other!”
I’d rather not have the temptation of money just waving in the air. Sometimes, the intrusive thoughts win.
Without a Verein and some framework, I dont feel comfortable being in any position where I could even indirectly be responsible for any amount of money >.>
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Second what Kaiser said. Also this thread is really for constructive ideas. Please take offtopic discussion to discord.
I’m interested! There’s something I’ve thinking about for a while that I’d love to discuss here:
I think it would be neat if there was a cafe-type place that carries terrain pieces that you can use within the venue for TTRPG sessions. Does anyone here know a business that would be interested in doing that?
Do you mean like a storage space for our minis/terrain/books etc?
you have to negotiate with the barowner(s)
advantage if you are a regular there
here is a list of DND friendly playces in Vienna we update from time to time
aside from that
you have a higher chance of storing stuff at WoWkeepers
that where the FR VALUE games take place nowaways
still you have to talk with them though
Well, there are certainly people here I’d trust blindly with money.
But if you want to play it safe, there are always joint accounts and the like that offer accountability without the need for a Verein.
also having a Verein does neither exempt you from dramatown nor kleptomania
anyway:
the FR-folks of RPGVienna already pay for a Verein: WOW/Keepers
either a membership-fee or a guest-fee
… really don’t see the point in having to be in two 
I agree that if you wanna run monthly (?) Nights-of-the-Rolling Dice events,
that a Verein would help you to manage expenses (e.g. for flyers) and attendance fees
… but that should be - at least in my opinion - its own thing
that being said:
anything related to RPGVienna as a whole should involve Neil
Well I was thinking more like this: they would have those materials for all paying customers to use. Essentially like a board game cafe, but for ttrpg materials.
Also @Darthbinks
saw this in 
was 
but I think here you have to open one yourself
We could ask wow keepers about that; for a bar/cafe that’s likely to space intensive and carries lots of investment risks and opportunity costs.
Getting a modular tile scenery set, even custom elements, would be easy. But keeping tabs on everything is a job in itself.
I agree that Drama Llamas and Kleptos still are a thing, the Verein is mostly about legal responsibility and having a framework reduces the risk of issues, but doesnt remove them.
e.g. Any money that is spent must be agreed upon by 2 people from the board and the Treasurer does a monthly (or quarterly) audit of expenses.
Regarding WoWkeepers, the long term goal would be to have own location/bar that we have an agreement with, but that, imo, is a 2024 goal. If folk are paying there, I wouldnt double charge.
There is lots of awesome brainstorming going on and talk like this is why a Verein is a good idea. It lets people have a mechanism to change ideas into actions.
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… but unless you do your own thing (e.g. a Night-of-the-Rolling-Dice Verein) which seems fine,
you hopefully would agree that this should involve Neil, right?
would be happy to hear that Neil will be there
should he show up, I def. will be there as well
sorry about that … was just that phrases like that 
were maybe a bit unlucky
OK, I feel its time to moderate this discussion a bit:
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About Neil - I did inform him and he is happy to attend. He did not confirm yet for the 22nd though. Anyone is absolutely encouraged to reach out to him personally too. I personally would love to hear his opinion and have him involved.
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@Darthbinks , I know your feelings about Verein. This thread is more about what could be done rather then what you don’t like. Lets keep it positive.
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To all - let’s not get trapped under negativity and meaningless critique. If you have an idea and can volunteer to make it happen (or help anyone else with their idea) - totally post here. If you don’t have ideas and/or don’t have time to volunteer - please don’t trash other people ideas. At this stage it is all about vision and building a team of volunteers to make some of it happen. Risk analysis and planning will come at next stage.
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he IS rpgvienna
so he MUST be
sadly it seems you don’t, so I make that clear(er):
- should you do your own Verrein for events, that’s fine … since this does not involve all of us
- should you vereins-size RPGVienna, there has to be a honest discussion about this, followed by votes … also this must involve Neil
Verein includes Vereinssitzungen/Meetings etc.
there you/we can talk about: (whoever wants to be part of it)
- democratic processes
- voting formalities
- who is eligible to vote
- charging RPGVienna members = financing the Verein
- who controls that / is in charge of that
- what to do with that money (e.g. renting your own venue)
- who decides what to do with that money
- what to do with the money, when the Verein dissolves
- who can and cannot sign (e.g. a Finanzierungsantrag)
this all has to be voted on … and not by just the people who show up at the 22nd
@SilentButDeadly
It is very sad to hear that you find all that listed above negative & meaningless
… but you/we need to have an honest discussion about this, before you start with legal stuff
I do not wish to speak for @Neil, so may the real Neil please stand up xD
I agree with what you’re saying, I apologize that my/our communication has been off.
The order of operations would be as follows:
- Have a meeting with the intent of setting a framework for Administration, Membership (at this point free) and Voting Structure
- Present a draft of the Statuten des Vereins, Mitgliedsformular, Hausordnung (which tbf, would just be Athena’s Siegel stuff printed out and passed around)
- Discuss any thoughts, concerns and ideas
- Post the Updated paperwork, have another round of edits
- Post a Final Draft, have a vote for/against
- If passed, start Vereinsgruendung
- If vetoed, edit, repeat from 3. until passed
- Run some faux votes and operations to test the system, adjust as necessary
- Finish collecting Member info
- Setup annual purge for Data Security
- Address any open security concerns
- (Some time late 2023) Have our first Vereinssitzungen/Meetings
- Present any plans from Members regarding things they want to see
- Calculate budge necessary for each idea
- Either votes in person or at a later date via Forum Polling
- Administration meeting
- How many ideas got through?
- Time frame and order to implement
- Budget? Can it be covered with:
- Quarterly events with voluntary donations
- Per visit dues
- Annual membership
- (Dec '23/Jan '24) Votes happen
- Admins implement decisions of the Verein
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