RPGs that give players narrative control

Jesús Molina - “I wanna generate some controversy.”

talked with 2 players/DMs recently who had no clue such games :backhand_index_pointing_down: exist, so here is the post :slight_smile:

a “few” examples :backhand_index_pointing_down:


RPGs that give players narrative control

So in many popular RPGs (D&D, Daggerheart, Pathfinder, Cyberpunk…) players tell the GM what their characters do, and then the GM tells them how the world reacts. Sometimes it depends on rolls …

… but how about games, where the players too can tell what is happening?

e.g.

  • “I actually have an old friend who is a retired guard. She lives not too far away, we could ask her.”
    • :backhand_index_pointing_right: (introducing a new NPC)
  • “The alley is full of piles of trash, that would provide good cover.”
    • :backhand_index_pointing_right: (adding that to a scene)
  • [when the BBEG is revealed] “OMG mum! What are you doing here?”
    • :backhand_index_pointing_right: (establishing that the BBEG is actually that character’s mum)
  • [when succeding on a “History” check … ]
    • :backhand_index_pointing_right: [… results in that player defining this piece of history in the setting]

In theory you could do that in any RPG … but there are several RPGs where this is actually the way it is supposed to work, or at least presented as an alternative that is encouraged.

So those are more a “tell a story as a group” thing if you will.


Itras By

Itras By ( :norway:: Itra’s city) is a surreal roleplaying game set in a city reminiscent of Europe in the 1920’s. The system is card based and focuses on freeform and improvisation.

Characters have no stats … so there are no dice. Itras By instead uses cards as a resolution, which are interpreted by other players. It also features cards that are used as a “special” prompt, if you have the feeling things are not surreal enough … or you just feel like it^^.

The system lives from its setting which is inspired by 1920-30 European surrealism, and was created via free writing.


FATE Core & FATE Accelerated

FATE is a generic RPG system, where players can use and/or generate “Aspects” (e.g. the ally is dark), which then can be used by characters to aid or hinder in a scene.

FATE Core is the more crunshier one, while FATE Accelerated is the less crunshier one.

In both cases FATE uses Fudge dice:

Since FATE is generic you can play basically everything with it from Superheroes, SciFi space opera, to urban fantasy.


(later) 2d20 Modiphius games

note: [imo. the earlier ones were a bit “wonky” - esp. the editing]

These RPGs use a pool of d20s (typically at least 2) for checks. The main difference here is that the players and the GM can use various checks and points of pools to add “Traits” to a scene - e.g. “dense asteroid field”.

These “Traits” either make something possible that was not possible before, or make something impossible that was possible before, or increase/lower the difficulty.

This system has been adapted to various IPs (with small modifications to fit that part. world).

  • e.g. Star Trek 2E, Dishonored (revised), DUNE

p.s.: what I really like about those systems is that the (most common) pool of “story points” is shared by the players, really giving the “we are a team” vibe to a group. Also there is a strong focus on how your character’s outlook changes by the story they are experiencing.


Cortex Prime

This system uses a dicepool of d4, d6, d8, d10, and d12 to create Assets and Complications in a scene.

The main difference to other systems is that these Assets / Complications have a “value” (e.g. “Restrained d8”).

Players and the GM also have a pool of Plot Points that can be used to influence these Assets / Complications.

Cortex Prime is the modernized, modular “toolkit” evolution of the Cortex Plus system, designed to be a generic, customizable system rather than separate, genre-specific games.

Some of those were pretty nice though:


Swords of the Serpentine

This is a game that focuses on Fafhrd and the Gray Mouser, Lies of Locke Lamora, Thieves’ World vibes.

It uses the GUMSHOE system (which is focused on investigation and horror), but Swords of the Serpentine is focused on really satisfying cinematic combat, with a side order of social combat and political manipulation instead.

As in other GUMSHOE games you have Investigative skills that just work. e.g. if you have Medicine and look at a corpse, you get the info - no check required … you can then spend points (dep. on your Medicine skill) to get extra information.

For action scenes a seperate pool of Action skills are used (and there checks are made).

In Swords of the Serpentine spending your Investigative abilities also can give you narrative control over the world. For instance, a rank of Laws & Traditions means you know all about the local laws, but you can spend that point to make up a law or tradition on the spot that’s true and always has been true, it’s just never come up before now. Or you could spend that point to do extra damage when locked in social combat with a member of the city watch.


New Fire

New Fire is a fantasy RPG in a setting inspired by pre-Columbian Meso-America.

It uses a d10 dicepool system and players roll for narrative control.

  • if your character aces a check, you can narrate everything that had to do with your check.
  • if your character succeeds but did not ace it, you can narrate everything that had to do with your check - but the GM can state one thing that you have to incorporate - but it must not be that you have failed.
  • if your character fails but not too badly, the GM can narrate everything that had to do with your check - but you can state one thing that the GM has to incorporate - but it must not be that you have succeeded.
  • if your character fumbles, the GM can narrate everything that had to do with your check.

The system also features pools of points that influences checks, and a seperate pool unlocked by the story for every PC dep. on their character (e.g. how well your sorcerer is intune with their spirit-animal)


Fabula Ultima

Fabula Ultima is a roleplaying game inspired by Final Fantasy, Bravely Default, Octopath Traveler and many more.

Every player character has Fabula Points, which they (also) can use to influence the story. What is really nice is that when an BEG makes a (dramatic^^) entrance every player character gets a Fabula Point … I really like that.

It also features really awesome character creation options (which I would :heart: to get into … but that would be to much for a single post^^).

The game features several books that give aid on how to run various genres (High Fantasy, Rustic Fantasy, SciFi, etc.)


… and I only scratched the surface here,

so if you know a system that does this too, please feel encouraged to add it :slight_smile:
… also if you have questions about one of those systems, feel free to ask :slight_smile:

4 Likes

Amazing post! I can’t comment on everything but I picked out a couple of quotes

I skimmed through the core rules at one point but never got round to playing it (as usual! :smiley: ) looked really interesting though.

ahh Trail of Cthulhu <3 big fan of GUMSHOE as a concept.

When I was skimming through your post initially I thought this was something like Radiant Historia. TTJRPG sounds interesting but the cynic in me makes me wonder how they managed to fit a JRPG into a TTRPG (and why they did that, to be honest!)

Oo, controversy! Let’s wade in!

Hmm … agree … agree … ok … yeah … true …

Hold on, where’s the controversy? I was expecting ‘Modern D&D is basically Magic for people who don’t like losing’ or something like that. :b

I think the only thing I even slightly disagree with is that you could do this with any RPG. I mean, you couldn’t really do so in Private Eye or something like that without it becoming an entirely different thing, could you, unless you establish massive guardrails?

Anyway, try some of these games, try some of these techniques. There’s fun to be had here.

As someone who has run and played Fabula Ultima a few times my thoughts are this.

The battle system is similar to older final fantasy titles with a few differences. You have an initiative similar to a turn based system where the initiative is more about deciding who goes first, then it goes enemy-player-enemy and so on. There are no area of effect spells only how many players are being targeted. Hitting weaknesses, either personal ones (coward, can be goaded, prideful) or mechanical ones (fire, physical, light, etc.) is very importnt, there is even a class that is very good at finding them.

But the way it is a Jrpg is in the “feeling” it wants to give. The very anime and jrpg feeling of high stakes melodrama, especially the melodrama. It has mechanics for “villain scenes” that the character’s don’t see but the players do, so you can have more connection to them. It is also very into the cooperation theme. Helping in skills and buffing others is very good generally. Also if you look it you can find a lot of the classical jrpg and fantasy anime archetypes in the classes and monsters.

Also they took inspiration from actual Japanese ttrpgs such as Ryutama, which they thank for their help and permission. Also they got goddamn Yoshitaka Amano (who made a lot of the old school final fantasy concept art) to create a piece for their new monster manual.

Also the art is neat and the items are in classical pixel art.

2 Likes

I’m not sure how much this wants to be here, but I’d say Enclave is a system that at least has mechanics for giving the players narrarive control. It’s a very fun system to try out that has its decision-making influenced some stats, but mostly your effort of playing your character. The way players can influence the narrative directly is via Pitches, some of which could be very similar to the examples given at the very top of the post.

This is like, tip of the iceberg when it comes to how the system works overall; you also have gear and abilities and so many more other things.

2 Likes

btw. I actually like FATE Accelerated more … even though I have played Core far more often :smile:

p.s.: the system has an :backhand_index_pointing_right: SRD
if you wanna give it a read again :slight_smile:
(I prefer other games nowadays but still neat)

Other GUMSHOE games do not have the “spend points to define story” feature as Swords of the Serpentine does (yet^^). That is why I mentioned only SotS.

As, mentioned in SotS you can also spend Investigation points to define parts of the setting / history.

  • Design Choices: HP/MP, how initiative works, symbolic battlefield (as opposed to grid), prioritizing elemental weaknesses, status effects, tactical initiative, etc.
  • Art Style: Yoshitaka Amano, equipment is in pixelart, etc.

Well the examples in my 1st post theoretically could be doable in a Daggerheart / D&D game as well … if everyone is on board with it
… although there are just no mechanics in those games, that would support such a gamestyle (as opposed to the mentioned rpg systems).

I’d like to add The Between and other Carved from Brindlewood Bay–style games to the list. I’ve played narrative RPGs before, but The Between in particular was a real eye-opener for me.

It took us a few sessions to really understand how the game should be played, but once it clicked, it turned into the best campaign I’ve ever played. A big reason for that is that everyone at the table actively contributes to telling an individual story, instead of just reacting to a predefined plot.

The Between has several unique mechanis for giving players narrative control. One of them, for example, is the “Unscene.” During an Unscene, players receive prompts and narrate short scenes that aren’t connected to the characters’ current actions (although the GM might refere to them later) and happen somewhere else in the city in parallel to the main story. These (very short) scenes help bring the world to life and create a strong atmosphere (and, as a GM, they also give you some time to plan your next steps, while the players are busy narrating their prompts).

However, I think games like this can be a bit hard to get into, especially if you’re coming from more traditional TTRPGs. In my experience, they require a slightly different mindset: you’re not roleplaying a character, you’re collaboratively crafting a story, more like a writers’ room than a classic game session.

That said, I’d love to play some more Itras By and try out the other games on your list :slight_smile:

2 Likes

How do these systems stop…ahem…“certain types of players” from completely derailing the game and taking over?

I mean, I know that can be asked of any game system and a lot of it depends on the group that you’re playing with, but how do the narrative-focused systems address this?

Assuming this is an adversarial player, not just a misunderstanding of how these games ought to be played then this is pretty much the key question for high-trust narrative games - either the players are going to play along with this system and use their powers in the service of telling a good story at table - or you should be playing a different game or playing with different players.

I would say the 2d20 systems or GUMSHOE system are the most robust to adversarial players of the ones listed here.

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(aside from consensus and trust)

You cannot introduce something that would contradict something else, that has been stated true before.

Also the phrases: “Hey this does not quite work for me. Could you please change in a way, so it will work for everyone?” are very helpful.

Plus using an X-card in such games is def. a good idea (esp. when playing Itras By & New Fire).

All those systems also state that a GM could veto a statement (for various reasons) if needed.


In most of those systems (2d20, Cortex, FATE, SotS, Fabula Ultima), you have to spend “points” to affect the narrative.

In SotS it has to be related to the Investigation skill you are expending (e.g. Laws & Traditions)

Fabula Ultima uses your character’s Themes (e.g. Duty/Mercy) and Identity (e.g. Naive Sky Captain). Some uses are more free but depend on your group’s consensus.

In 2d20 & Cortex you can only do that if it correlates with the task you just doing right now.

  • e.g. Since you want to “find” a “dense asteroid field”, so you have to succeed on a Sensor Operations test first, or something else that would fit.

p.s.: 2d20 lets you also introduce stuff that is related to your characters values (without a task)

  • e.g. “You must walk barefoot in the dirt to really understand a world.”

but doing this is quite expensive (resource-wise)

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In addition to this: I also found it useful to discuss CATS (concept, aim, tone, subject matter) in session zero for these kind of games. Since everyone can contribute to the story and narrative, it’s important that everyone is aligned about the kind of story you’re aiming for (e.g. how much horror, supernatural stuff, romance,… do you want to have).

Sure. Just saying that there are some games where you simply can’t hand over the narrative reins without breaking the game.

The good ones either find a way to integrate these narrative options into the format of a game, usually with tight constraints, or are clear from the start that the point is to tell a satisfying story together. The not so good ones are unclear about whether they want to be a role-playing game or an exercise in storytelling.

2 Likes

lot of those games “live from the setting”, be it that they are based on an IP (Star Trek, Dune, Firefly, Marvel, …), how you create the world together with your fellow players is part of the game (Fabula Ultima, FATE), or the biggest part of that RPG book is the setting (Itras By, New Fire).

I run Itras By every 2nd month or so (in a conference room of a public library)
it is in German though
… should you be interested, I can write you a PM with the dates

I mean that’s always been a social problem not a system problem. If your players are not committing you are going to have a bad time either way.

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I kind of disagree. If a game requires some kind of buy-in or consensus on how it should be played, that’s a game design issue, not a social problem.

Like in 5th ed: I’ve often seen min-maxers described as problem players, or “that guy” or whatever, but min-maxers are just playing the game effectively, in the way the rules push you toward playing. Because system does matter - not in the nonsensical GNS way, but in how to play in order to succeed, no differently than if we were talking about poker or chess.

And games that give players narrative control are no different. If a game gives a player tools but expects them not to be used or only used in certain ways, or tells people they’re playing a game but expects them to tell a story, or various other things that commonly go wrong in such games, more often than not that’s just a badly-designed game.