He’s dndmums son, 13, showed up with a guardian for the first several months but now shows up without a parent.
He was at the event today, mum was there.
Not much to say about him
It’s possible I missed something, this has been going on for months and my brain drains quickly, To the best of my midnight-knowledge, you have expressed doubt as to whether this thing does anything at all, but have pointed out that if it IS going to happen, it should be improved and involve minors. But you have (as far as I am currently aware) not pointed out how exactly minor(s) at VALUE might be at risk or what kind of topics we should or could address. Maybe you could do that (or do it again if I missed it earlier) to give examples of how we could add this.
The topics that I know in regards to minors usually involve things like driving minors home, befriending them, drinking in front of them, swearing, topics, and so on. I don’t see how we could add anything that changes the level of safety, seeing as those things happen outside of the scope of the game.
The problem was that it wasn’t a safe space. The Code of Conduct makes it safer.
My previous statement was perhaps a bit unclear about what I think a safe space is: A space where I feel safe to voice concern and where I don’t feel pressured to do things I’m not comfortable with.
Also, naturally, in an ideal world I would want to use “safe” rather than “safer”, but I think any step counts.
As to the rest of your post, I have never disagreed with any of those premises. I am disagreeing with how it relates to VALUE and solving the problems we are having. It’s entirely possible that that is because I personally don’t care about playing with or without kids. Sure, I’m a bit more careful if there’s a kid at the table, but I’m fine if they don’t play at VALUE and I’m fine if they do.
On a side note, a lot of “safe spaces” changed from that to “safer space” because in a safe space you can’t do anything. Everything is triggering to someone. All you can do while having fun is to provide a safer space and deal with the shit that comes up.
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I’ve also been looking into the question of minors participating where I am at. I think @H makes an important point about how a lot of safeguarding focusses on obligations to minors than expectations of them.
Might it be worth having an info sheet for minors giving them information and advice, and requiring both they and their guardian consent to it? This could include disclaimers of responsibility (VALUE organisers and GMs aren’t childminders; the community comprises adults and minors will play alongside them),expectations of their behaviour (get parental consent or supervision to play; abide by the code of conduct), but also key information and advice (guidelines on how minors engage, including responsibility on them to play in age appropriate games; but also examples of inappropriate behaviour, abuse, and harassment, and a reporting procedure so they can recognise harassment/abuse and speak up if something happens).
So language like ‘we want to ensure everyone at VALUE can participate free from harassment or abuse. This means we will need to work together on this. We need you to be responsible for playing at tables that are age appropriate, being aware of what kinds of behaviour is unacceptable, and raising with organisers if you or anyone you know at VALUE experiences this. We will support you by listening to your concerns, investigating complaints, and alerting the appropriate people when necessary’. Expand on this skeleton as appropriate.
There is a school of thought in the UK that finds existing safeguarding protocols insufficient because it misses a lot of what @H identified as missing in sport safeguarding in Austria. In response some education professionals have proposed a more holistic model that tries to create cooperation within communities about how to keep minors safe, including by getting minors themselves to understand risk and work together with responsible adults to mitigate those risks. It’s called ‘Radical Safeguarding’ for anyone who is interested:
I’ve been studying it to implement in my day job for a while now.
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I think that might be pretty useful for running kids centered games … which we are not (there are others who do this)
still discussing this side-issue (from being a horde of adults centered group) is still important
it seems that both kids who are attending in the holiday seasons have guardian oversight anyway (at least for months)
@xaosseed we could add to the first post
KIDS AT V.A.L.U.E.
We stress that kids who want join a V.A.L.U.E. game, should arrive with a guardian. Please keep in mind that we are not a ‘youth association’ and just adults who hang out to game. If you have any questions regarding this topic, please feel free to contact us.
(
this is just a 1st draft … feel free to revise & expand)
My initial thought was that it is not a 100% enforcement. Still a parent, who reads the CoC might get a clue what the V.A.L.U.E. groups are and esp. what they are not.
@xaosseed Might this work? 
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At the top I said we would review and make one big update for the new season. I took that as we would gather all suggestions from this thread and the suggestion sheet, combine that with whatever consensus had been argued out and do one big revision rather than update as we go. It gives some time for view to stabilise.
That said, I think the proposed addition makes sense for inclusion at that point.
Honestly any responsible parent would show up and talk to the other players/dm anyways. I don’t see a scenario where random kids just show up.
agree
just tried to bring the concerns of @H in some sort of coherent form
(although I agree this is a side-issue now, it might be later … so prolly good to have)
Couple quick points (more later):
I think we should probably steer clear of discussing specific people here, please. Thank you.
Also:
This seems to be a misunderstanding. Not what I said, not what I believe.
From what I know, safegarding in Austria is in line with current best practices. I also haven’t seen any significant differences between training in Austria and global training.
I know I’m late to the table! As a mostly non-V.A.L.U.E. (and totally non-D&D!) GM, I mainly have reflections on the impact of the draft code on the tables I have attended as a player and the way it has helped me steer my own non-V.A.L.U.E. games.
Even with the draft, I have seen the perhaps expected quick reading and nodding of heads from players when it has been presented to them, but at least its existence gives players a set of base expectations that we have of them as players, it gives players a set of base expectations of how there will be a level of consistent values between tables/GMs, and it gives suggestions for how more sensitive interactions between players and GMs can take place.
The draft code has also reminded me about how I can be a more transparent and structured GM, giving more context for the world/setting players will be playing in, and being clearer on the lines and veils that games run by me contain, giving the players a more obvious chance to tell me if anything could be out of bounds for them.
The code may not provide an iron-clad solution to all situations, even in its final form, but given that we are a group of DMs/GMs outside of an association (I know there is a separate discussion on that) operating on mainly Fridays and Saturdays under the V.A.L.U.E. umbrella, we are voluntarily choosing to commit ourselves to this code (with the other choice being that if we somehow find the code too restrictive, then we can run our own games outside of the V.A.L.U.E. umbrella). With that in mind, I believe even this draft code is having the desired effect of providing those base consistent expectations of play that we can point to as players or GMs if we feel something goes against them.
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